The Popculty Podcast

Black Widow vs. Marvel

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From director Cate Shortland's gritty cinematic style to stars Florence Pugh and Scarlett Johansson calling B.S. on sexist jokes, how the women behind this summer's Black Widow salvaged Natasha Romanoff from the male gaze of the MCU and made an intimate family drama/comedy/tragedy under the guise of a superhero movie. Plus, the Scar-Jo v. Disney lawsuit that may have inspired the  IATSE strike threatening to shut down Hollywood. Oh, and how is everyone's movie theater anxiety these days?

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TRIGGER WARNING: Some discussion of child trafficking (14:25 - 15:36) and forced hysterectomies (24:56 - 25:23).

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Natasha:

[intense trailer music] You don't know everything about me. I've lived a lot of lives...[music fades to background]

SJ:

After a year hiatus, the summer blockbuster season returned - Or at least as much as it could, while a pandemic still rages. Sequels and reboots abound, but if you're looking for a kick-ass almost entirely female action/superhero movie, Marvel's Black Widow is where it's at. Delayed a full year from its original release date, this was one of the most anticipated movies of 2021, and I gotta say, it lived up to my wildest expectations. I'm your host, SJ, and this is The Popculty Podcast - a celebration of the pop culture that matters. In this episode, we're saying a bittersweet farewell to Natasha Romanoff, rooting for the fall of Disney, and talking about that pandemic-era movie-going anxiety.

Natasha:

[action trailer music resumes] We have unfinished business. We have to go back to where it all started.

Yelena:

Lucky us.

Natasha:

One thing's for sure - It's gonna be a hell of reunion.[music fades out]

SJ:

So, this episode was not originally planned. We were supposed to have our second mental health episode. But it's been a long time since I've gotten so hyped by a movie that I've found myself writing at length about it. The more I thought about Black Widow and the lawsuit surrounding it, the more I saw how symbolic of deeply problematic corporate histories and current progressive movements it is. We're going to get into all of that in a second. But first I want to piggyback off our mental health series and talk real quick about the mental distress of deciding whether or not to go back to theaters - The struggle is real. Black Widow was the first movie I saw in theaters since the pandemic started. The last one was, fittingly, Birds of Prey in February 2020. So it's been a long-ass time, especially for someone who used to see 3-4 movies in theaters per week. I saw Black Widow back in mid-July in that brief lull when we all thought the pandemic was over and we could actually enjoy this summer. I waited a week after release date to miss the opening week crowds, but it was right smack-dab in the middle of that hopeful, collective ignorance, when people thought if they were vaxxed they were basically invincible, and before we started seeing the dreaded Delta variant in the news every night. But even still, the experience was much more stressful than I had hoped. I went to a Regal theater in a large city on the West coast. The sign on the door saying "masks optional" was the first big red flag, and my blood pressure immediately spiked. Which ended up being justified, as no employees were masked and most theater-goers weren't either. The nice thing about Regal theaters though, is that they have super high ceilings and those recliner chairs that are already spaced out quite a bit. I never got within six feet of the half dozen or so other movie-goers, but the sounds of them eating their popcorn made me glance nervously over my shoulder the entire time. The biggest red flag though? The air smelled stale, and there were no signs or sounds of air circulation - Which, aside from mandating masks, is the number one thing businesses should do to prevent the spread of COVID. So if you're not going to have one, you *really* need to have the other, and uh, they didn't have either. I was hyper-conscious of every minute I spent inside with these unmasked strangers, constantly wondering if this was a huge mistake. But there were moments throughout the two and a half hours that I was able to push those thoughts to the back of my brain and get lost in the action. Seeing this film in particular on the big screen was a real treat. I think it definitely contributed to my glowing feelings toward it. The fight scenes were so clearly made to be seen on a screen bigger than your TV. And I am grateful that I experienced it just once as it was intended. Plus, if that experience had killed me, my headstone would read, "Here lies SJ. They died seeing Black Widow in theaters." Anyone who knows me would be like, "Yep, that sounds about right." But it was weird and surreal to be back in a movie theater after a year and a half. This used to be my thing, and it was nice to get back to it, but mostly that was overshadowed by the anxiety, fear, and guilt about whether all my cautiousness, all my hand-washing and self-isolating, had been canceled out for three hours of escapism. According to polls, the overall movie-going comfort level went from 40% at the beginning of 2021 to 70% in early summer. But that was before Delta reared its ugly head, causing hospitalizations to skyrocket and those comfort levels to plummet once again. A few months ago, I would have said if there's a movie you really want to see, go, but be super safe about it. Now I'm just going to tell you straight up - This Delta variant has got all the health care workers I know terrified and exhausted. I'm hearing ICU nurses saying they are more scared now than they were at the beginning of the pandemic. These new variants are four times more transmissible than regular COVID, and even fully vaccinated people aren't 100% immune to it. The situation just isn't the same from when I went, and I'm back to being fully resolved that it will probably be another year before I'm able to see a movie in theaters again. I want to see distributors continue this trend of increased accessibility to their films, releasing them simultaneously in theaters and on VOD. Or just VOD-- That's honestly the safest option right now. The words"only in theaters" sounds like a threat now, and I don't want to see them on any trailers or posters as long as we're still in this...panorama. If you want to watch Black Widow specifically, it's on Disney+ right now, and it's well worth the $30 to watch unlimited times. It's a great movie, but it's not worth risking your life for, and it will be practically as good on your TV at home. Just crank up the volume, turn off the lights, and make yourself some popcorn. If you are hell-bent on going to the theaters for this or any other movie (assuming theaters stay open), be vaxxed, keep your mask(preferably an N-95) on-- that means no concessions, sorry-- and go at an off time (midday, midweek). You can't control the theater's policies or what other people are going to be doing, so all you can do is everything you can to protect yourself. Okay,

Natasha:

[intense, dramatic trailer music] Before I was an Avenger, I made mistakes... and a lot of enemies.

Yelena:

His call-sign's Taskmaster. He controls the Red Room. They're manipulated - fully conscious, but no choices.

Natasha:

I should have come back for you. How many others are there?

Yelena:

Enough.

Natasha:

We have to go back to where it all started... so they never do that to anyone again.

Alexei:

We're a family. We fight with you.

Melina:

You won't win. I've always found it best not to look into the past. [music fades out]

SJ:

First, a very brief history of Marvel's collaboration with women directors. Emphasis on brief, because believe it or not, in the year 2021, *this* is the first Marvel movie to be solely directed by a woman. Now, die-hard Marvel fans are probably saying, "Wait, what about Lexi Alexander?" Yes, Alexander did direct the 2008 Punisher sequel, but that movie was actually produced by Lionsgate, who owned the character rights at the time, so it was they, not Marvel, who tapped Alexander to direct. No, hiring a woman filmmaker never even occurred to Marvel until four years ago, when they started developing their first standalone female superhero movie, Captain Marvel. Even though Marvel president Kevin Feige said it was "important to consider" a woman filmmaker for the project, they ended up going with male/female co-directing duo Ryan Fleck and Anna Boden. Gotta rein in that estrogen, apparently. For the Black Widow movie, they finally "allowed" a woman to take solo directing responsibilities. But of course it has to be a white woman - You see how this goes. Enter(eventually) Cate Shortland. Next up we're getting Eternals, helmed by Chinese director Chloe Zhao - Yay, a woman of color! And then finally, they're working their way up to letting an actual Black woman, Nia DaCosta, direct - all on her own- the upcoming Captain Marvel sequel. I mean... This tentative, incremental progression of including women behind the camera, crammed into the span of just the past few years, couldn't be any more obvious or predictable. And I wouldn't be surprised if after Captain Marvel 2, the company pats itself on the back for checking all the obvious boxes and calls it good, promptly reverting back to its old habit of only hiring men, and certainly never considering a transwoman or non-binary director. Oh, fun side story though? Before Cate Shortland was officially attached to Black Widow, Marvel approached Argentinian director Lucrecia Martel, whose 2019 film Zama was named the *best film of the decade*. In typical style, they made her sign a million NDAs against disclosing anything discussed in the meeting, but then proceeded to make it clear they only wanted her as a token female figurehead, telling her,"Don't worry about the action scenes, we'll take care of that." In response, Martel - icon that she is - told them their films were ugly and"painful to listen to," and walked out, immediately breaking the NDA and going on record about the negative experience. Insert "Good for her" meme here. Anyways, I wanted to establish this timeline and broader context first, because it really illuminates the miracle and conundrum that is Black Widow(2021). And having watched this company's practices for years now, I always feel the need to remind people that Marvel/Disney is a cowardly institution that only does the right thing when all other options have been exhausted. And this personality trait-- because in this country, corporations are people too-- will become even clearer when we talk about the fate of Natasha Romanoff herself. So, after scaring off several other women directors on their shortlist, including Martel, Marvel reached out to Cate Shortland - an Australian director known for her indie-scale, intimate portraits of young women in harrowing circumstances, including 2012's Lore and 2017's Berlin Syndrome. Lore, in particular, earned Shortland wide acclaim and was Australia's submission for the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film. But it's about as far away from a Marvel superhero movie as you can get, and Shortland couldn't understand why they wanted her for this blockbuster. So she turned them down - Repeatedly. But Scarlett Johansson, who had seen Lore and was enamored with it and its director, pursued Shortland, tracking the elusive filmmaker down and convincing her to take the role. This is Johansson speaking with Variety.

Johansson:

It was only Cate for me, from the beginning. And it was very important to me that the person that directed this film had to have made a masterpiece and then some other good movies. [laughs] One masterpiece, you know. And I really think Lore... I mean, it's really a perfect film. It's so beautiful.

SJ:

Now, I'm not the biggest fan of Scarlett Johansson, for a couple of glaring reasons. For one, she has taken roles for Asian characters and trans people, even though she is a white, cisgender woman. For another, she is one of the few actors still publicly supporting pedophile Woody Allen, telling The Hollywood Reporter as recently as September 2019, "I love Woody. I believe him, and I would work with him anytime." Hoo! Anyone who's seen the recent docu-series Allen v. Farrow is *screaming* right now. So yeah, I got serious issues with her as a person, not gonna lie. At the same time, I gotta give her props for what she accomplished on this movie, not so much in front of the camera-- though she is good in the role-- but more so behind it. She is the first Avengers cast member to executive produce her standalone film, and in that capacity, she honed in on the perfect director, even against what many considered common sense, and won her over. That commitment paid off, with Shortland bringing what she does best to the MCU, disrupting a stale, mind-numbing, world-in-peril laundry cycle of a franchise with a deliberately paced, intimately-scaled action movie dedicated to exploring the fraught and ordinary humanity of its protagonists. Lore's premise-- a girl struggling to keep her younger siblings alive while shedding a lifetime of Nazi indoctrination-- is basically the premise of Shortland's Black Widow, in a modern, albeit slightly heightened context. Natasha Romanoff, once a prisoner of the secret Russian black-ops facility known as The Red Room, teams up with her spy sister Yelena to bring it down and free the other Widows from its control. That throughline is part of what led to the creation of the film's opening credit sequence, which shows a young Natasha and even younger Yelena being physically torn apart from each other, and from the only parents either of them has ever known, smuggled into an underworld devoid of free will, to be conditioned and trained as spy-assassins, under the control of Dreykov. [Somber, acoustic cover of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" begins playing in background; children's screams echo] The montage is scored by an acoustic, moody version of"Smells Like Teen Spirit," which definitely could have earned an eye roll. But as I watched little Natasha and Yelena being separated...

Dreykov:

That one...and her.

Young Natasha:

No! Yelena!

SJ:

...and a compressed montage of the next 10 years of their lives in the Red Room... [girls screaming] I got chills. Because the real-world parallels were striking. The images Shortland uses here are immediately evocative of child trafficking.

[song:

"...here we are now... entertain us..."]

Dreykov:

The Red Room is your home now.

Young Natasha:

Get off me! No!

SJ:

The film really goes there, right off the bat. I was shocked, frankly, and appreciative that Shortland does not shy away from just how dark the concept of the Red Room is, and the patriarchal misogyny underlying it. It's an immediate and constant grounding of the narrative that just does not exist in any other MCU property, except for maybe Black Panther's underpinning of colonialism. Throughout the film, the theme of girls and women having their familes, bodily autonomy, and freewill taken away is repeatedly addressed head-on. This is costar Florence Pugh, who plays Yelena.

Johansson:

to examine all the flaws of the character-- or the perceived flaws of the character, their insecurities, you know. She was so interested to pull apart this woman who has been a part of an organization, or some part of a greater whole, for her entire life, not really by choice. And now suddenly, she's floating in this in-between place, and who is she? Can we explore this journey of self-discovery? I can't imagine anybody else that would see it quite that way, other than Cate. And of course a part of it is that she's also a woman. [laughs] That's also a part of it. It's one part of it. It's a big part of it, but she's also an amazing artist in many ways, and she's an incredible female artist too.

SJ:

Shortland knew from the beginning, "I really wanted the film to be a fairground ride, but at the same time, I knew we had to honor who she was. And then it became about, 'Okay, who do we bring into the story who's going to open up those chinks?'" Enter the best spy fam since Alias - David Harbour as oblivious dad and super-soldier Alexei, always-fave Rachel Weisz as science mom Melina, and the infinitely watchable Florence Pugh as spy-sis Yelena (much more about her in a second).

Natasha:

Here's what's gonna happen--

Melina:

Natasha, don't *slouch*.

Natasha:

I'm not slouching.

Melina:

Yes, yes, you are--

Natasha:

I don't slouch--

Melina:

--You're going to get a back hunch!

Alexei:

Mm, listen to your mother.

Natasha:

Oh my god, this--

Alexei:

Up, up!

Natasha:

Alright, enough, all of you!

Yelena:

I didn't say anything. That's not fair.

Natasha:

[exasperated] Here's what's gonna happen!

Yelena:

I don't want any food!

Melina:

Eat a little something, Yelena--

Natasha:

Hey!

Yelena:

[super annoyed] Oooh...

SJ:

The entire supporting cast just seems like they're having so much fun here. Especially David Harbour, practically unrecognizable from his Stranger Things character, with his prison tats, silver teeth, and scraggly beard.

Alexei:

In my heart, I am simple man. And I think that for a couple of deep undercover Russian agents, I think we did pretty the great as parents.

SJ:

Weisz is more understated - a complicated woman, both warmly maternal and pragmatic scientist; a victim of the Red Room many times over herself, who must grapple with the guilt of creating the chemical subjugation used to mind-control her pseudo-daughter, Yelena.

Melina:

We had our orders and we played our roles to perfection.

Natasha:

Who cares? That wasn't real.

Yelena:

What?

SJ:

Which brings me to the absolute gem of this movie - Florence Pugh. We honestly don't even need to talk about Scarlett Johansson's performance here, because this movie, despite its title, is not hers - It's Florence Pugh's. She is hands-down MVP here. Did I not call it in episode one of this podcast? I told y'all I saw this girl named Florence Pugh in a little movie called Lady Macbeth, and I thought, "We are going to be seeing a lot more of this girl." Four years later, she's been in some of the best examples of each cinematic genre. from period pieces like Little Women, to horror like Midsommar. Here, she effortlessly blends action and comedy, a la Taika Waititi's Thor Ragnarok. She can turn on a dime from callous killer, when she's under Dreykov's mind-control, to utter remorse, seconds later, when that control is broken. Yelena is the greatest child assassin the world has ever seen, *and* she wants a dog named Fannie. She will relentlessly give her older sister shit, *and* she desperately wants to be loved and accepted by her. In fact, it's easy to see a parallel between her roles here and in Little Women. Both are the forgotten little sister - characters both who, in less capable hands, could have been self-pitying, arrogant children. Instead, in Pugh's hands, combined with the empathetic curiosity of the female gaze, both Amy March and Yelena Belova redeem themselves, often outshining the films' intended heroines.

Natasha:

That wasn't real! Who cares.

Yelena:

[voice breaking] Don't say that. Please, don't say that. It was real. It was real to me! You are my mother! You were my real mother - the closest thing I ever had to one.[almost crying] The best part of my life was fake... and none of you told me!

SJ:

Florence is one of the most naturalistic actors working today. She's pretty new to the scene-- her first film was only in 2014-- and she's had no formal acting training. Because of that, every performance she gives-- if you can even rightly call it that-- is so instinctive and raw, which is just miles from the prescriptive, rote performances that dominate Hollywood, and especially the MCU. She gives all of herself, holds back nothing, and is a constant surprise. What a rarity, in a profession where every actor is trained at the same schools in the same methods, to the point where we've now seen every facial expression and emotional reaction that can exist on screen, and nothing ever feels new. *She* brings something new. She never repeats herself, doesn't telegraph her reactions, or check her coverage - She just responds, in the moment, with no ego. You can tell, especially in this film, because the camera here-- always close on her face, as in love with her as we are, it seems-- often has to catch up to her movements, trying to capture these fleeting, unscripted reactions from the heart. A really good example of this is her final scene with Natasha, which just makes you want to reach through the screen and hug her. Of course, finding the right story to tell here was also essential to giving us characters like Yelena for Florence and the rest of the cast to work their magic on. The challenge was finding a narrative that could take place before the catastrophic events of Endgame, while bringing Natasha's backstory full-circle. Fortunately, we had Jac Schaeffer taking the lead - at least for a while. Schaeffer was the creative genius behind this year's singular and wonderful WandaVision limited series. She drafted the story, which was then handed off to Eric Pearson of Thor Ragnarok for the screenplay. Now, having seen what Schaeffer did with WandaVision, I would love to have seen what this movie would have looked like if it had stayed in her hands from start to finish. I'm a little bitter we'll never know. But we have her to thank for establishing the groundwork of this project, for honing in on what the most compelling story was going to be. And she nailed it - It's Natasha's family story. To give due credit to Pearson, the final script itself is, overall, as solid as you can get, from a screenwriting standpoint. There are running gags throughout...

Yelena:

[hero music, cuts abruptly] Such a poser.

SJ:

Dialectical and visual callbacks to previous films...

Natasha:

Thank you for your cooperation.

SJ:

Smart, witty dialogue mixing Russian and English...

Yelena:

It's a synthetic gas, the counteragent to chemical subjugation. The gas immunizes the brain's neural pathways from external manipulation.

Natasha:

Maybe in English next time?

Yelena:

[repeats herself in Russian]

Natasha:

[responds in annoyed Russian]

SJ:

The "rule of three" utilized perfectly, to both comedic and tragic effect...

Yelena:

[sad, wavering whistle]

SJ:

...and elements that strengthen past and future films, tying the first three phases of the MCU together beautifully, bridging them to phase four. It also contains the only post-credits scene that isn't a throwaway, but rather the full completion of the story, and the only post-credits scene that will, as one person put it, "rip your heart out and put it in a panini press." Though a good chunk of those writing successes are, in fact, thanks to Nicole Holofcener, the Oscar-nominated writer/director of movies like Can You Ever Forgive Me?, whom Shortland brought in at the end, to polish up Pearson's dialogue. And there are still these occasional tells that indicate this movie was at least partially written by a man. Most glaringly, about midway through, there's this line from Alexei that we've heard a million different times in a million different movies...

Alexei:

Why the aggression, huh? Is it your time of the month?!

SJ:

[sigh] That old chestnut. Shortland sums it up when she says, "I remember Florence and Scarlett and I reading it in the script and just being like, 'Oh my god, this is soooo dumb.'" She says she almost cut the joke entirely. But Nicole Holofcener suggested they instead, "let the girls answer it." She rewrote the scene and Florence Pugh did her thing to give us this.

Yelena:

I don't get my period, dipshit. I don't have a uterus.

Natasha:

Or ovaries.

Yelena:

Yeah, that's what happens when the Red Room gives you an involuntary hysterectomy. They kind of just go in and they rip out all of your reproductive organs. They just get right in there and they chop them all away--

Alexei:

Okay, okay!

Yelena:

...Everything out, so you can't have babies--

Alexei:

Okay! You don't have to get so clinical and nasty.

Yelena:

Oh well, I was about to talk about fallopian tubes, but

SJ:

"I love it," Shortland says,"Because it's like, if you're okay. going to make that joke, I'm going to unleash Florence Pugh on you. She's gonna Yelena you. It's one of my favorite moments in the film." Ditto. I love this reactionary dialogue, and it feels so relevant to these larger current discussions we're having about cancel culture and revisionist history. Remember during the so-called "Racial Reckoning" of last year, when every corporation was suddenly very desperate to never have appeared racist? All these old TV episodes featuring blackface were pulled from streaming catalogs overnight, from 30 Rock to Mad Men. It was Shortland's first reaction too - that knee-jerk impulse to just cut the offensive thing and pretend it never existed. But we can't just pretend that racism and sexism don't seep into our everyday pop culture, shaping our beliefs and prejudices. And doesn't just surgically excising those harmful jokes and stereotypes do more damage by contributing to the lie that we don't have a racist, misogynist history? At a certain point, it seems far more productive to, as Holofcener suggested, answer these problematic jokes than to erase them altogether. Wouldn't it be more constructive to air those blackface episodes with a trigger warning, disclaimer, and/or apology? That's what TCM recently decided, after deliberating about what should be done with all its racist old films. Instead of pulling them from its lineup altogether, they're still showing Gone with the Wind, but now it's bookended by a Black historian explaining the cultural context and reiterating the reality that slavery was, in fact, *that bad*. I think in all these cases, we benefit much more from a dialogue, as opposed to erasing entire swathes of our history, both political and cultural, just to avoid feeling uncomfortable or guilty. That's the debate we're currently having here in the US about teaching critical race theory in schools. And on a more micro level, that's basically the dilemma Shortland and Holofcener were faced with in this scene. I think it was a stroke of genius to keep that problematic joke, in order to eviscerate it, calling out how it actually doesn't even make sense, while getting a good laugh by turning the joke back on Alexei-- not to mention on Pearson for writing it in the first place-- *and* not shying away from the disturbing reality of forced hysterectomies. It's a small scene, but it packs a wallop, doing triple duty. And if there hadn't been a woman director, writer, and two very vocal female leads on set, that "joke" would have been just another throwaway line on top of the soundbite trash heap of men in movies making fun of women on their periods. Instead, we got*progress*. All because there were women involved a

Johansson:

I think a female director of course saw all the decision-making level on this set - Imagine that! things that I would have seen-- especially false moments, you know, that Cate and I kind of called bullshit on. Like, "A woman would never do that!" [laughs]

SJ:

But that scene isn't the only instance in the movie that serves as a meta-commentary on sexism-- specifically, the sexism Natasha has endured throughout the Avengers saga.

Yelena:

Why do you always do that thing?

Natasha:

Do what?

Yelena:

That thing you do when you're fighting. Like the--[straining as she poses] This thing that you do when you whip your hair when you're fighting... with the arm and the hair, and you do like a fighting pose [laughing]. It's a fighting pose. You're a total poser.

Natasha:

I'm not a poser.

Yelena:

Ha-ha!

SJ:

Again, Florence Pugh was integral to the creation of this scene as well. It wasn't even a spark in Eric Pearson's mind when he was on set one day, watching the actors goofing around behind takes, and overheard Flo taking the piss out of Johansson's action poses. He knew it had to go in the script, and that became the movie's funniest running gag. So again, because a woman-- in this case, Florence-- noticed Natasha's impractical fighting pose in previous films, it ended up in the script as dialogue, effectively calling out the male gaze of the MCU, and the ways women within that male gaze contort themselves.*Literally*-- Just look at the poster for the first Avengers movie, where Natasha is the only character twisting herself so that both boobs and ass are visible. Women aren't the only ones spared from unrealistic body expectations in this movie, by the way. Let's talk about David Harbour's dad bod versus the practically inhuman amount of muscle Chris Evans and Hemsworth have to put on for every Avengers movie. The male gaze cuts both way, kids! And this movie is having none of it. Apart from the narrative, I want to talk about two big practical aspects of production that really stood out to me - the costuming and the fight scenes. About 10 minutes in, when we catch up to adult Natasha, it's clear that this movie is here to put an end to the long streak of this character's hyper-sexualized appearances. In Johansson's first scene, we watch as she dumps her form-fitting Black Widow suit and dons sweatpants and a baggy hoodie as she goes on the run, and we breathe a sigh of relief. In a really great article titled"Hair Ties and No Heels - The Evolution of Female Superhero Costumes is Finally Here," Entertainment Weekly interviewed costume designer Jany Temime, who says a lot of those decisions came straight from Johansson, "because it was her film and she could choose." In the initial wardrobe fitting, Temime brought in racks of possible outfits for Johansson to choose from, and was pleasantly surprised when she bypassed the more fashionable choices, instead going right for the basics - sturdy pants, shirts and jackets. Clothing that was practical, not sexy; fabrics that she could move and perform stunts easily in; and notably-- no heels, which the character has been known for wearing in previous films, but makes zero sense for the amount of fighting and running she does. Temime says, "I think that was the difference with the other MCU films, that it was dressing the character and not the woman. I was dressing Black Widow for what she is at the end, as an Avenger, as someone who doesn't have to sell herself anymore. She knows what she is - She has such great value, she has great power, and she just wants to be comfortable in her own skin." That's a constant principle throughout this film, not just for Natasha's wardrobe. As the new face of the Black Widow franchise, lesser films would have put Florence Pugh in sexier, more fashionable clothes, but Temime instead considered Yelena's background when dressing her. "She has been brainwashed to become a killing machine, so it would be very strange if she would have chosen something feminine. So, I gave her trousers, a pair of military boots, and a very oversized blazer-- like a men's jacket. I really wanted to accentuate that side of her. She's a no-bullshit girl." As for Yelena's beloved vest of many pockets...

Yelena:

You know this is the first piece of clothing I've ever bought for myself?

Natasha:

That?

Yelena:

Yeah, you don't like it?

Natasha:

Is that like, uh... army surplus, or..?

Yelena:

Okay, it has a lot of pockets! [Natasha chuckles] But I use them all the time, and I made some of my own modifications.

Natasha:

Oh, yeah? [chuckles]

SJ:

I love this detail - Temime was actually given the mandate from Shortland to include the green vest in Yelena's wardrobe, as a way to create an emotional link between this film and Avengers Infinity War, in which Natasha wears the vest over her black mission suit. She then built the rest of Yelena's outfits from the same militaristic style, representative of a person who has been in an institution her entire life.

Yelena:

Shut up! The point is I've never-- I've never had control over my own life before, and now I do. I want to *do* things.

Natasha:

[pause] I like your vest.

Yelena:

Gah, I knew it! I knew you did, it's so cool, right?

Natasha:

It's good. Yes, I love it.

Yelena:

[as excited as a little kid] And you can put so much stuff in there, you wouldn't even know!

SJ:

Natasha and Yelena spend the movie running around and kicking ass in flat-soled combat boots, not a wedge or heel in sight. And that's part of what makes the action here feel very different from what we usually see in this franchise. But the fight scenes themselves really stand out. For one thing, they're more grounded (third act skydiving battle notwithstanding), because this is the first MCU movie in which the title hero is more or less a regular person. No super-human strength, iron suits, vast fortunes or divine parentage here - Just an ex-Russian spy armed with her intellect, guile, and physical prowess. The fight scenes reflect that. For choreography, Shortland drew inspiration from contemporary dance to film scenes where a man was exerting physical dominance over a woman - Again, something that is far more commonplace in the real world than has been in this fictional one. For the first fight with Taskmaster, a formidable opponent who can mimic the fighting styles of any adversary, Shortland directed the stunt team to choreograph a fight that felt as if Natasha"had been attacked by a stranger while hitchhiking." One where we can feel her caught off-guard, how vulnerable and unsure she is whether she can actually beat this opponent - an uncommon feeling for her. [metal of car wreck creaking over Taskmaster theme - low, eerie strings] Yes, there is still the occasional inescapable appearance of her signature fighting move, which Scar-Jo has dubbed the"crotch-throat grab," where she wraps her legs around an opponent's head, spins around, slamming them to the floor. There's even a wrestling move inspired by this called "the Black Widow," reserved, of course, only for female WWE fighters, as it is reserved only for female characters in movies as well. And you can just imagine a deleted scene where Yelena shit-talks that too(Please be on the DVD). But aside from that, Black Widow subverts nearly all of the usual women-in-action tropes. The Widows are a believable kind of badass, their fighting style based on speed, agility, resourcefulness and sleight-of-hand, over brute strength or guns. This movie knows these characters, knows their background, training, and personality, and uses that to create-- more or less, in a comic book movie-- realistic fight scenes that also convey something about each character. All the Widows wear practical, full-body tactical suits - They are never once sexualized. And even though most fights are between women (by nature of this having a majority female cast), there are no scenes that I would remotely consider a "catfight" or filmed for a presumed straight male viewer. The one scene that could have easily slipped into this territory is the reunion fight between Natasha and Yelena in the Budapest safe house. Pitting a female character with a history of over-sexualization against the young, fresh face of the franchise, in a scenario where they essentially beat each other with kitchen appliances, could have gone wrong in all the ways we've seen these fight scenes go before. Instead, here, all the aforementioned considerations are channeled through Shortland's lens to give us a fight scene that's *brutal*, yet fundamentally relatable to anyone with siblings.

Natasha:

[women grunting with exertion, sound of bodies slamming, objects smashing][Yelena yelps] Stay down. Stay down! STAY DOWN!

Yelena:

[feral scream] [plate shatters]

SJ:

When Yelena smashes a plate over Nat's head, it's not because "women be cooking", nudge-nudge, wink-wink. It's because she's *pissed* at big sis, not afraid to give her a concussion, and scrappy AF. When Natasha strangles Yelena with curtains, it's not because"women be in the home", it's because she's trying to subdue little sis without killing her.

Natasha:

[anxious music crescendos] *speaks Russian**speaks Russian*

Yelena:

[music eases] *gasps for air*[weighted pause]*responds in Russian*

SJ:

Sisters - you beat the shit out of each other and then do shots. What can I say? Accurate. From its casting of an androgynous young Natasha, to its intentional costuming and fight choreography, this film does a lot to rehabilitate Natasha, to both show her growth as a character and undo some of the damage done to her by previous writers and directors. Most notably, at the gross hands of Joss Whedon in the second Avengers movie, which simultaneously-- let me just check my notes here... turned her into a damsel who suddenly forgot her lock-picking skills, forced her into a romance with the Hulk, subjected her to an extremely gendered and wildly inappropriate epithet from Loki, and implied she was a "monster" for not being able to have children. Yeeees... remember that shit? Well, Black Widow is as close to an official apology from the MCU for all that as we are ever going to get. Here Natasha gets to utilize all of her skills, from hand-to-hand combat to deception to hotwiring cars; instead of some shoe-horned hetero romance, the love story here is a familial one between women; she gets to beat the male villain bloody after his monologue about how girls are trash, and it's clear that *he* is the only monster here, for taking away her freedom, her choices, and yes-- her ability to be a mother. Just like he did to every other woman and girl in the movie, from Melina and Yelena, to the other Widows and even his own daughter. Which brings me to the final aspect of this film I really appreciated, which is the theme of family. Unlike a certain franchise that purports-- constantly-- to be about family, while really being about gravity-defying car chases and explosions, Black Widow is a movie pretending to be about explosions, that is *actually* about family - In this case, chosen family. And-- now look, I literally wrote the chapter on chosen family in superhero narratives, so obviously I'm going to talk about that here. What makes Black Widow a special movie in its genre, is that if you stripped away all the superhero stuff-- the powers, the explosions, even the spy intrigue-- you'd still have deeply relatable characters and a compelling family drama that borders on tragedy. No other Marvel movie can say that. That might sound like a bold claim, but I'm also a video editor. So I put this theory to the test, making an edit of the film that's just the scenes of things that could happen to you or me. And the result is an intimate, almost indie-feeling story of two girls who are trafficked - one who escaped, one who got left behind, and how they forgive each other for the years they were apart.

Natasha:

*speaks Russian* ... I should have come back for you.

Yelena:

You don't have to say that. It's okay.

Natasha:

Hey. Hey... It was real to me too. [emotional music]

SJ:

Now, I'm not going to be that person who quotes myself. So instead, I'll share this recent "Dear Carolyn" column I came across-- Just stay with me here. So, a reader wrote in asking if they were a bad person for not liking their parents. Carolyn's response echoed a lot of the things I wrote about in my Supergirl essay - "Liking one's parents, or siblings, or kids even, is a weird expectation. These are people of proximity, not choice. Maybe there's a better than random chance of getting along because of shared environment, upbringing, experiences, traits,(in some cases) genes. But it's still, at its baseline, a story of discrete individuals assigned to live together before anyone really knows who anyone is. Lest that sounds cynical, a lot of us like our families anyway, or have come up with inspiring ways to make it work, regardless. Love, for example, which is different from like. Also gratitude, duty, culture, reciprocity, community, security, utility, respect, sympathy - plus, whatever else you can fit under the umbrella of shared history. Family members who might never have chosen one another as friends can find emotional sustenance in familiarity alone." As a trans person whose biological family has often let them down, I'm a big believer in the power - even superiority - of chosen family. But it occurs to me, reading Carolyn's response, that Natasha and Yelena actually kind of fall into both categories. Even though unrelated by blood, they*were* thrust together by outside forces before they knew who they were. But then they also choose to come together again, because of every one of those qualities mentioned - gratitude, duty, culture, reciprocity, community, security, utility, respect, and sympathy. Not to mention history, guilt, and genuine love. I could write a whole'nother chapter on these two, and the spy fam in general. Who knows, maybe I will one day. Many have expressed what I felt- that Natasha and Yelena's relationship is the most emotionally-charged thing to ever exist in the MCU. And watching this film, you can't help but realize this is what all the previous films have been lacking - Heart. A focus on the*people* under the heroes' costumes. Fan reaction has been overwhelmingly positive, an outpouring of gratitude that this beloved character has finally gotten a farewell at least. But mixed in with that gratitude and relief is real anger and mourning that Natasha Romanoff didn't survive the saga, that she had to die in order to get her own movie; rage that we could have had an entire trilogy with this lovable chaotic spy fam. As someone put it, "I can't help but think how game-changing it would have been for me to watch that seven years ago when it should have come out." Another person said,"Marvel waiting 20 movies, seven appearances, and 11 years to make a Black Widow film is a shocking delay and it cannot be forgotten. To say the world wasn't ready for a Black Widow film in 2013 is ignorant of everyone who deserved to watch it back then." Black Widow feels like the missing piece of the vast cinematic jigsaw puzzle that is the Avengers MCU. It enhances the other films with deeper context. For instance, showing us a Natasha who repeatedly risks her life for others - a somber foreshadowing of the self-sacrifice, she'll make in Endgame. But in some ways, it also makes the events of that movie sting even more. As one person pointed out, Black Widow is about how Natasha has two families - her spy fam and her Avengers fam. But the whole rationale of her sacrificing herself in Endgame over Clint Barton was that she "didn't have any family" and he did. Like-- make it make sense! It's so frustrating. But there is another, more generous way of viewing that sacrifice. We saw Natasha devastated after Thanos blipped half the world's population into dust. But more than that, she was determined to find a way to reverse it and bring everyone back. She even ended up sacrificing her own life to do so, and that didn't fully make sense within the context of just the Avengers movies. Because we didn't know what we know now. We had no idea where she went after Civil War, that she reconnected with her true family, her sister... And many have speculated that *that* is the reason she was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in the end - Because *Yelena* was one of those snapped out of existence. Natasha's death was to bring her sister back.

Natasha:

[quietly] Whatever it takes...

SJ:

Now, do I think we can give Marvel credit for this? No. We're talking about the studio that has a long history of sidelining, torturing, and fridging its relatively few female characters, in service of the plot lines of its pale male heroes. I don't think they put any deep thought into why this character should die. But I like this reading of the whole text, because it makes Natasha's sacrifice more meaningful. A lot of us found it-- at the time and still today-- unsavory, pointless, and outright wrong to kill off the only original female Avenger, especially over one of five white guys who had actively become a *worse* person, unlike Natasha, who spent years atoning for her past sins. Anything that makes that awful executive decision sting less, I can get behind. One of the only negative criticisms of the movie I've heard is that Dreykov is a weak villain. While I do agree that Ray Winstone is not even trying to do a Russian accent here, I think the character he's playing is as weak as he deserves to be. I don't need a tragic backstory for a man who traffics children. I don't need to understand or sympathize with someone who literally views women as trash. The movie doesn't waste a second more on him than is absolutely necessary for narrative cohesion. And that's exactly as it should be.

Dreykov:

And with you, an Avenger under my control, I can finally come out of the shadows... Using the only natural resource that the world has too much of... Girls.

SJ:

Dreykov might as well be the onscreen representation of Marvel itself - The studio that has only allowed women behind the camera of two out of its 24 feature films to date; The company that outright ignored its female fans for 10 years before committing to *one* Black Widow film, even as they threw billions of dollars into*trilogies* for Iron, Ant, and Spider Men. And THAT, to me, is the most incredible thing about this movie - the way it calls out the very system that created it, acting as a meta-commentary on the expendability of women under capitalism. A few years ago, Martin Scorsese caused a ruckus when he admitted that he doesn't watch MCU movies, saying, "I tried, you know? But that's not cinema. Honestly, the closest I can think of them-- as well made as they are, with actors doing the best they can under the circumstances-- is theme parks. It isn't the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being." You know what? He's right and he should say it. These movies are not unique, auteur vehicles. The stories that get made here are chosen by a boardroom of people, selected from a pre-sanctioned list of licensed properties they own the rights to (depending on what is likely to be most profitable), placed on a conveyor belt that replaces all creative choice(down to color grading) with algorithms and corporate votes. Shortland clearly agrees with Scorsese, saying she "got hooked on the idea of trying to tell a really personal, intimate story in amongst so much beauty and spectacle." Black Widow is the rare Marvel movie that is arguably more than just a theme park - an actual example of cinema (by Scorsese's definition, which I think is a fair one) with a distinctive and unique point of view, that is able to escape the assembly line and transcend the limitations of this "fast food art." So in the way Black Widow is a condemnation of how the world views women as inherently worth less than men, it's also a condemnation of the very studio that produced it - its history of mistreating its few female characters, and undervaluing the contributions of women behind the camera. Its intimate feel is a deliberate subversion of the ugly factory filmmaking and CGI set pieces that Lucrecia Martel called them out on years ago. And the thing is, it could have so easily been just an afterthought movie. I mean, the character is dead and the story had to be retroactive, contained within the narrative time period between two other Avengers movies, *and* not have so much character growth that it renders Endgame unbelievable. Honestly, with all the constraints Shortland was given, it's a miracle this film was anything more than a throwaway. They gave her the tiniest sandbox to play in, and she built a 10-story castle in it! Look, I wish I had more negs, just for the sake of balance. But the 'pro' column in my notes is practically endless, while the 'con' column just says, "motorcycle ride over so fast? (sad face)" and "let Rachel Weisz kick more ass." That's it, that's all I've got. Maybe part of that is because even though I've been excited for this movie for years, I've also had years of Marvel fuckery to temper my expectations. So honestly, I wasn't getting my hopes up. This character has been treated so piss-poorly up to this point, how could I have had any hope for a decent send off? You know-- [announcer voice] "From the studio that neglected to give the only female Avenger her own merchandise until publicly shamed! Featuring a character called a 'slut' and a 'complete whore' by male cast members on Avengers press tours!" [normal voice] I mean, Jesus! What was to be excited about?? So I just went in thinking, "If it's fun, I'll be happy." That's why I'm so gobsmacked by this movie. Because it was so much more than fun - It was thrilling, it was fresh, it was unexpectedly dark and heartbreaking. It was action packed, it was hilarious. Hell, it was a fuck-you to Marvel made right under their nose! Because they underestimated every woman at every step of the way in this decade-long production - and those women just got the last laugh.

Natasha:

Thank you for your cooperation.

SJ:

To close this episode out, let's talk about the lawsuit surrounding this movie. By now you've probably heard that Scarlett Johansson is suing Disney over the release of Black Widow. Your first thought might be, "Please. Hollywood problems." But this is actually shaping up to be a really important case with cascading effects. Because this is kind of the first time someone with both the means and clout is taking Disney to court over their exploitative practices. And to be honest, it's about damn time. So, to recap the whole situation... Disney released Black Widow simultaneously in theaters and on Disney+, which lured a ton of new subscribers to their relatively new streaming service, raising its stock price and increasing compensation for Disney executives. At the same time, this strategy, obviously, massively undercut theater ticket sales - because why risk the 'Rona if you can just watch from the comfort of your own home as many times as you want? This tanked Scar-Jo's earnings by an estimated *$50 million*, as her contracts specifically stipulated that the majority of her compensation for the film would come from a percentage of box office revenue. Soooo, Disney found a way, under the guise of "viewer concern," to both make more money for itself and pay its actors WAY less than was promised. Legally, this is a clear, egregious breach of contract. And the kicker is, they had the opportunity to avoid this whole mess and do the right thing, and they flat-out said no. When Johansson learned of Disney's plan for the dual rollout, she asked to renegotiate her contract, to find a way to make up that back-end, and they refused. For contrast, their rival Warner Brothers paid Wonder Woman 1984 star Gal Gadot and director Patty Jenkins $10 million each to secure their approval for that film's simultaneous release in theaters and on HBO Max, rather than risk an open dispute. So, WB knew it was the right thing to do, but Disney continues to think itself above the laws of both contracts and morals. Now their PR machine is spinning her lawsuit as "sad and distressing in its callous disregard for the horrific and prolonged global effects of the covid 19 pandemic." That's rich, coming from the company that opened its theme park in *July of 2020*, during a spike in Florida COVID cases. You can't also help but see the sexism at play here, especially considering Disney's nasty habit of underpaying its actresses. Remember how it was a big deal when Scarlett Johansson's salary for Avengers was finally made*equal to* her male co-stars?(Even though, by the way, she's won more awards than all of them combined.) It's difficult to imagine Disney refusing to renegotiate, say, Robert Downey Jr. or Chris Evan's contract. A joint statement issued by Women in Film, TimesUp, and ReFrame correctly called out Disney's attempt to characterize Johansson as insensitive or selfish for defending her contractual business rights as the gendered character attack that it is. Unions, too, are backing the suit, as are a lot of struggling actors and creatives who say it has the potential to create legal precedent that will help them pursue their own complaints against the company. Because Disney and its subsidiaries have a history of screwing over creators. Most famously, Marvel refused to return original art to Jack Kirby, the creator of Captain America, unless he signed a contract saying they could adapt all of his characters for free. Multiple sources recently told The Guardian that when a comic book creator's work features prominently in a Marvel movie, the company's standard practice is to send them an invitation to the premiere and $5,000 - an insulting amount considering the*billions* that individual MCU movies rake in. Maybe it's just coincidental timing, but I also think this lawsuit probably emboldened unions like IATSE, the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, to demand living wages and adequate rest periods for their members, representing every department from hair and makeup to animation. As of this recording, it seems likely that an IATSE strike will happen, which will essentially shut Hollywood down until corporations treat their workers like human beings. If they do strike by the way, we need to show our solidarity with the crew people who make our entertainment, by donating to the strike fund and boycotting streaming services and studios. The point is this lawsuit isn't just for Johansson. It's also for her co-stars, including our girl Flo, and really any actor that's been in a movie released on Disney+ this past year - Raya and the Last Dragon, Mulan... That's a lot of women and people of color who have been screwed over too, and this lawsuit could prevent that from happening again. Only someone as wealthy as Scarlett Johansson can afford the astronomical legal fees and potential professional blowback from going after a corporation that owns basically everything. Few other actors, including her Black Widow co-stars, could risk their career with a move like this. As stated, I'm no Scar-Jo fan, but in this particular instance-- Good for her, I hope she takes 'em to the cleaners. If you too cannot get enough of Florence Pugh, I've got a stellar watch recommendation to leave you with. There's a limited series on AMC+ and Sundance Now called The Little Drummer Girl. It's an international espionage thriller, based on the novel by John le Carre and adapted by Park Chan-wook, which is exactly as twisty and sumptuous as it sounds. That'll tide you over while you wait for Yelena to get her revenge on in the Hawkeye TV series later this year. You can read my chapter on chosen family in the book Girl of Steel, Essays on Television's Supergirl and Fourth-Wave Feminism. And tell you what, if you leave the show a review on Apple Podcasts, I will send you a free copy of that book, which I think is going for like $40 online. Just post a review and then email me a screenshot of it with your mailing address to podcast@popculty.blog and I will send you a copy. To leave a review, navigate to the Popculty Podcast showpage in Apple Podcasts or iTunes. Scroll down to 'Ratings and Reviews.' There, you can tap a star rating from one to five and click 'write a review' under the featured review. This reeeeally helps other people discover the show and is extremely appreciated. If you've been back to the movies this year, let me know what your experience was like. And what did you think of Black Widow? Tweet me @popculty. I'll be posting some videos to go along with this episode, so be sure and follow me for those on Tumblr at popculty.blog and on Instagram @thepopculty. Leaving a review on Apple Podcasts is the best way to support the show for free, but if you enjoyed this episode and have the means, you can also directly support the work by joining our Patreon. Apple Podcasts is trying out this new paid subscription model, but I'm not going to do that. This show has always been and always will be free for everyone to listen to, as well as ad-free, because this has never been about making money. But throwing us a couple bucks if you can afford to sure does help me keep the show going by covering operating expenses, and gets you some sweet perks as a thank-you. Check it out - patreon.com/popculty. Major shout-out to our sustaining supporters - Suzy, Mary, Ken, and Alexandra. And thank YOU for tuning into this episode of The Popculty Podcast. This show is written, produced, and edited by yours truly, SJ Palm. Until next time, support women directors, stay critical, and demand representation.